Carcinogen

A Discussion of religion from an agnostic point of view.


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.- / .--. --- .. -. - .-.. . ... ... / .--. --- ... - / .. -. / .--. --- .. -. - ... / .- -. -.. / -.. .- ... .... . ... .-.-.-
03.17.06 (11:36 am)   [edit]

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... --- / .. ..-. / -.-- --- ..- / .-- . .-. . / .... --- .--. .. -. --. / ..-. --- .-. / ... --- -- . - .... .. -. --. / --- ..-. / ...- .- .-.. ..- . / .... . .-. . --..-- / .. / .- .--. .--. --- .-.. --- --. .. --.. . / - .... .- - / -.-- --- ..- / - --- --- -.- / ... --- / -- ..- -.-. .... / - .. -- . / - --- / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . / - .... .. ... --..-- / .- -. -.. / .. -. / - .... . / . -. -.. --..-- / .... .- ...- . / -. --- - .... .. -. --. / - --- / ... .... --- .-- / ..-. --- .-. / .. - / --- - .... . .-. / - .... .- -. / - .... .. ... .-.-.- / ..-. -. --- .-. -..

-thanks for reading!

 
A Quick Response...
02.24.06 (3:31 pm)   [edit]

I just wanted to respond to a few of the comments I received.  I was going to reply in comment form, but thought a new post would be easier.  So if you are new to this blog, read the previous post and comments first.  If you have any opinions, feel free to post them.

GraceShaker asked about  those who "change sides", I knew someone would mention that.  Obviously the circumstances for everyone are different.  I myself was raised christian, but went on to educate myself in a number of different religions.  And in my case, I wasn't looking for community.  I was looking for truth.  Which is funny, because PastorDave stated that those who follow their heart for ultimate truth find God, I found the absence of.  But he does put the key word in there, those who seek God will find him.   I wasn't seeking God, I was seeking truth.  If you go searching, with the idea that God exists, you will start to actually associate events and things in your life to the existance of God. 

Of course, family isn't always the case in determining religious belief, but its influence can't be denied.  As well as the influence of culture and society.  At some point, we all seek clarity and reason.  And we look for those answers first in what is available to us.  Its not as likely that one would convert to an obscure African tribal religion in the US. 

I in no way wanted to say that everyone everywhere made up their minds about religion because of their parents.  I simply want people to take a good look at WHY they believe what they believe.  Where their initial influences come from.  But thats the crazy thing about religion.  Those who are "faithful" can attribute any decision they make to the influence of a higher being.  Its a more comforting thought to some, that you aren't out there sailing alone, but that there is a plan for each of us.  And then when Timmy lives a normal dull life, and dies at 17 in a car crash, it was God's plan.  Where as one who steps outside of the realm of supernatural influences, can see just as easily, Timmy just had bad luck. 

 
The Apple Never Falls Far From The Tree Of Knowledge Of Good And Evil
02.23.06 (1:59 pm)   [edit]

The majority of the world today believes in a "religious icon" in some form or another.  You can stop most people on the street and if asked politely, they will disclose some small amount of religious faith.  There are Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Jews, wiccans, shaman, voodoo priests, and Satanists to name a few.  Most likely, you the reader, follow one of these doctrines.  But have you ever really sat and thought about WHY people are catholic or Jewish or Muslim? 

Of course the common answer is because they believe in God.  Ask a Mormon why they are Mormon, and they will likely give you the "Because Jesus gave us the book of Mormon..." line, or something similar.  But probe again.  "But WHY are YOU a catholic/southern baptist/budhist/protestan t?"  Then you may get a few different answers.  They could range from explanations on how other branches are incorrect in their teachings, to something about "God speaking" to them, guiding them to that particular doctrine.  But you may just get the reason that guides most people on their spiritual path.  "I was raised this way."   

Apparently, parents have a strong influence over their children.  Who knew?  Most people believe the way they do, because it’s the way their parents believed.    Families typically attend services together.  And most start bringing their kids when they are babies.  So this doctrine is imprinted from a very young age.  Its the same as many other things in our life.  Hygiene habits, eating habits, speech mannerisms, taste in clothes, cars, television, and movies.  Is a child born in Texas born with a southern accent?  Or is it learned from his parents and those around him?  Is religion a southern accent?  Or is it a British accent?  Or is it a language?  French perhaps. 

Which one language is best?  Obviously the one you speak.  If you live in America, which cars are best?  The American made cars, of course.   

Religion is as inset and localized as accents, language, and automobiles.  And each follower knows that THEIRS is correct.  I was raised catholic, so it must be correct.  Of course, members of the KKK KNOW they are correct in their beliefs too.  They were raised that way.  Their parents aren't wrong.  And all the people who congregate with them aren't wrong.  Everyone else is.  

What about the converts?  What about those who found God?  Of course people all have different circumstances.  But a person who converts is looking for answers, but also community.  We are the broken tribes of the world in a sense, always looking for that lost family.  And when someone is in that state of mind when they need support, friendship, and guidance, they will take the first offer that comes their way.  And they will often times try something in stark contrast to what they were doing before.  

So who is right?  There are Muslims willing to blow themselves up, because they KNOW they are right.  There were people who killed themselves to catch a comet to heaven, because the KNEW they were right.  And the rest of the world, who doesn't share their views, looks at them as crazy.   

"Who is right" most likely wont be answered in our lifetimes.  Of course, if you are a person of faith, your beliefs may have already been "validated" by some experience.  So has every other religion in the world.

 So why do you believe the things you do?
 
A Written Excuse From God.
05.08.04 (8:24 pm)   [edit]
Sorry, but I am afraid I cannot work on Sunday. God has told me that if I do I will die.

Exodus 35:2
[i]Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you a holy day, a sabbath of rest to the lord: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.[/i]

So...here is a question. If a pastor/priest/father/rabb i works on Sunday, shouldn't they be put to death? What about a camera guy who films an evangelist on TV? While bringing the word of God to people at home, he is disobeying the word of God. And according to God's word "shall be put to death."

What about the doctor who saves the life of a believer on Sunday?

Oh well...better not question it.
 
Voices in their heads.
05.03.04 (4:11 pm)   [edit]
Why is it that God never made an appearance. Not even to his most faithful followers?

It could be as is said, that we could not survive being in his presence. Our human bodies, to fragile and unpure to withstand the awesomness of his being.

Or maybe its actually something else. God said that we are made in his image. Well, wouldn't that mean that he looks like a man then?

People wouldn't be as willing to follow a man...or someone who looked like a man. Hell, we killed Jesus, even though he performed miracles and said he was the son of God.

It seems to me that sometimes people hold more credibility as a voice. Radio DJ's sometimes seem more knowledgeable or credible because they are just a voice. When you see them sometimes it reduces them to what they are. Just a person.

Or what if the god they were speaking to wasn't a god. What if they had reason to hide their identity.

Either way, hearing a disembodied voice can have much more of an impact than seeing a body accompany it.

It leaves the imagination to create its own source. So by only presenting himself as a voice, God was able to create a more convincing argument that he was a God.

And what about the burning bush? Well, that still didn't reveal God's form, but it gave a physical presence to show Moses that it wasn't in his head.

Something to think about?


 
Santa paves the way!
04.28.04 (8:44 pm)   [edit]
I think its interesting how many parents seem to pave the way for their child's belief in God, by introducing them to secular ideas.

Now, please note that I am not saying that ALL parents do this, nor do my views reflect many non-western beliefs. So having said that...

We start off as children being told there is a Santa Claus, and Easter bunny, and a tooth fairy. Many are also taught of the existance of God and angels at this point in time. I am sure that everyone has heard the old explination that Christmas is both the celebration of the birth of Christ and shared celebration of Santa Claus because christians took a pagan holliday and made it their own. Whatever the case there is something a bit deeper here.

As children we are told great stories of a magical man who can travel around the world and deliver gifts to the boys and girls of the world. knowing their hearts to be good or bad.

We are told of the easter bunny who leaves us a basket of goodies, and of the tooth fairy who leaves money under our pillow for lost teeth.

And we are told of God who watches us and has angels who protect us and serve him. And how he knows all and is all powerful.

We believe in these things very strongly. Absolutely.

Then, at some point, all but one of these stories are revealed to be fictional.

There is no Santa. No Bunny. No fairy of the dental world.

But what has this done? I think that it sets us up as children to be critical of all extraordinary ideas but one.

It sets up 2 catagories of ideas or beliefs. A) God. and B)Everything Else.

So to protect ourselves from feeling the same hurt and betrayal that many children feel when they learn there is no Santa, they defend the one constant, and attack the foreign views.

Investing faith into something is an emotionally draining and life encompassing task. Its not something you do lightly. And from an early age we are taught what is the correct idea to focus our faith, and painfully taught that everything else is "false".

As humans, we have rebellious natures.

And because of this nature we are driven to do things that we are told NOT to. A child told not to touch a hot plate, will most likely touch the plate. After being burned through a rebellious act, the child understands why.

So what we do is offer the child a hot plate at a young age. They burn their hand and learn about painful destruction of belief at a young age. This way they fear the loss of belief at an older age. They are conditioned.

So does this mean that a religious person who believed in Santa as a child is more likely to never question or change their beliefs as opposed to someone who never believed in Santa?

I have no idea. But it would be an interesting study I imagine.

 
How many gods does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
04.26.04 (8:35 pm)   [edit]
Well, after a slight delay caused by work and my obligation to the judicial system as a good citizen I have returned to offer up another tidbit of bittidness.

This is just the simple discussion of whether there is one god or many.

Of course the hebrew and christian religions say that there is one god. Or do they?

These are monotheistic religions. Meaning that they believe that there is only one god. Period.

But, in the Bible, God repeatedly makes the statement that his words should be taken literally. So, with that in mind lets look at the first commandment.

"I am The Lord your God, Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. [b][i]You shall have no other gods before Me."[/i][/b]

If we take this literally, then the God of Moses is not denying the existance of other gods, just simply telling his people that they should not worship them above him. It would seem logical that if there were no other gods that he would have said "There are no other Gods."

Its typically believed this was in reference to idolotry. And it was promptly broken by the creation of the golden calf. But if this is the case, then what consists of "another god before" Him? Could the worship of Jesus be directly in opposition of the First Commandment? And what about the Catholic practice of praying to Saints? Shouldn't the praying to Mary be considered bringing another god before God?

Perhaps this statment was made because of the situation the hebrew people had just come out of. They were enslaved by the Egyptians which of course had many gods. And maybe this approach was decided to be less obtrusive to those who were just learning of this new religion. Maybe it was easier to take that you were worshiping the "wrong" god as opposed to hearing that your god didn't even exist.

Or, we can take the Gnostic view of the situation. That there are in fact multiple gods. The one true uknown God. The mother, Sohpia. And The Creator. The Creator being the one who created the 10 commandments. In his jealousy and pride, ordered his worshipers to only worship him and not the True Unknown or the Mother.

To end, maybe monothiesm isn't the best description. It could be that many gods were believed in, but only one was worshiped. In this case even Moses was a polytheist, but [i]worshiped[/i] only one god.



So...there is something to think about. Or not.

 
God's Ghost Writer
04.11.04 (7:25 am)   [edit]
Wow. Some really great topics brought to light in the comments there. So many to choose from. But I will start with the topic of the bible being penned by man, and therefore must be flawed.

This is usually the first argument I see against the bible. If it is penned by men, it must, by that nature, be flawed.

Knowing man, knowing MYSELF, and knowing that especially in the religion driven political world that was in motion when much of the bible was written, this is most likely true. BUT. You have to remember that even though these men held the pen, and may have been sinful and unpure and whatnot, AT THE TIME THEY WROTE they were under the guidance of God. So it could be said that even though it was their hands, they were "possessed" by God while writing. Therefore removing the chance that this was a work of man, but an actual work of God.

But to me, this is a flawed defense. For one has to believe there IS a God to believe that the men who wrote it were divinely inspired.

Another thought is that assuming it was divinely inspired and flawless in creation in the beginning, it has been translated and rewritten numerous times. And the translators I seriously doubt, were the passionate followers that actually wrote the original texts. We all know that William Shakespere was one of the writers of the King James version. I've never thought of Bill as a biblcal or religious icon in anyway, but never the less his work is read by millions in churches every week.

The argument against this is that the bible we read today really hasn't changed much from the original texts. Of course, I am unable to verify this for myself so I still find that in order to accept this defense, you have to go off of faith, but this time faith in a follower.

Another argument is that no other religious text has lasted in whole as long as the bible, so therefore it must be sent from God.

This one to me is outwrite dumb. And I hear it ALL the time. Let me put it this way.

No other text was used by the inquisition as the basis for their beliefs. No other religion was the official religion of the Church. The bible was not labeled heretical. So while all of these other works of religion and science and art were being destroyed, it remained. And I can't believe that the inquisition was a work of God. If it was, then it give you something else to think about.

And of course, the last argument I will present is the argument of the "missing" books. Indeed there were MANY texts left out of the canonized bible we read today. Why? Many of them offered views outside that of the popular view. Many were determined to be written by man and not god. And some were left out for not having enough flair or pizzazz.

So even though the texts may have been penned by God, the final editing and publishing was done by man.

And for my final thought, I will give an example out of Genesis to ponder.

Genesis 1


The Beginning

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was [1] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

[u][b]3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning-the first day.[/b][/u]
6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning-the second day.
9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so.
10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so.
12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
13 And there was evening, and there was morning-the third day.
[b][u]14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years,
15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so.
16 God made two great lights-the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.
17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth,
18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good.
19 And there was evening, and there was morning-the fourth day.[/u] [/b]

So Moses, being divinely inspired to write Genesis, listens to the God of all creation and writes it down.

Oddly enough, the God of all creation, including math, science, and astronomy, was able to create light on the first day, and then make the sun and the stars on the fourth day. At least thats how he told it to Moses. Maybe he forgot exactly how he made it and in what order. But I would assume the sun and stars would have been first. Considering some of those stars were other planets as well. The actualy formation of the Earth would have been impossible without the sun's gravitational influence.

Also, we can see that vegetation was created before the sun. We all know that plants live by a process call photosynthesis. This is a process that only works with the sun. So according to the bible, they went a day without the sun.

Now there is the debate over how long the days referenced actually are. Some say that the wording Moses used the hebrew word "yôm" for day. associated it with numbers. 1, 2, 3 and so on. And he referenced evening and morning. So we can assume when he said "day" he meant 24 hours.

Ok. So the plants are fine for 24 hours right? I don't know... It says that Light was created on the first day, but I can only assume Heat came with the creation of the sun. Which according to Moses, the only purpose for the sun was to signify the difference between morning and night and the seasons. Well, in seasons I can assume he means winter and summer. Which means hot and cold. So there was a 24 hour period there of absolute void of space insane freeze. Maybe plants were more hardy in the beginning.

Also we have the moon. This too was created on the 4th day with the sun and stars. It was to govern the night. Well, the origins of the moon are still much of a mystery, but current hypothosis suggests that the moon was a large chunk of rock that slammed into the Earth...oh hell, [url=http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/...]read this.[/url] Anyhoo, if this is true, then much of the vegitaion would have been destroyed as well. And going with the 24 hour day, I doubt that the animals created the next day could have survived long with the amount of dust created.

Needless to say, from the beginning there are some obvious flaws that to me, had they been handed down by God, wouldn't be there.
 
Faith, Prayer, and Other Silly Things
04.10.04 (4:55 am)   [edit]
Through our desperate need for something greater than ourselves, humans have created gods and religions to help explain what we fear and don't understand. Its a scary thought for a human to think that we are alone. Some use religion to feel more comfortable, others use the idea of alien races, communications with the dead. etc.

For those that believe in nothing, it can be a dark and lonely road. But, that doesn't mean its the wrong one. There is no proof either God nor aliens actually exist. With aliens, its a cut and dry matter. You either believe, or you don't. With God on the other hand, its a bit more complex.

With religion comes Faith. Faith is the ULTIMATE catch 22. Its a great idea and very effective at what its intended to do. But in order for it to work at its best, it needs a little help. Lets analyze faith.

Faith requires of a person to believe in something. Typically the belief is requested without prior proof. Example: Believe in God
Now. If I have ENOUGH Faith, then I will prosper or succeed or whatever. According to the bible, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you can move mountains. So even a little faith goes a long way. BUT...
Here is the catch 22. As we all know, having faith is hit or miss. I can recall many times that friends and family had "faith" in God to carry them through hard times and illnesses. Well, friends died. Hard times got worse. Now, our religion tells us that when someone dies, it was just their time. God decided it was time for them to go. Well, what is the point of having faith and praying then?

If all of our prayers and faith still hinge on God's prayer and plan, then essentially we have no influence in the matter. But we like to convince ourselves of it. We like to think that when Pete recovered from his cancer, that it was the power of prayer and faith, and the will of God that saved him. As opposed to the obvious answer that he simply recovered.

Faith and religion are also miraculous control devices. And this brings me to another essential item to make faith work.

Say you have a religion. You have followers. You have people believing what you have to say about life and the universe. But as time goes on, people lose faith in your religion and stop believing. Now, if one person believes in something, then it leaves a lot of doubt. If many people believe in something, than it starts to seem as if it may be true. So in order to keep people believing and to keep the sense what you are saying is true, you have to throw something in to keep them on track.

Enter Heaven and Hell. Reward and punishment. These are the last ingredients in the faith formula. Now what you have is people believing that if they have ENOUGH faith they go to heaven. A place of unimaginable beauty. This is very appealing because it happens after you die. And since most everyone has a fear of death, it helps ease that impending doom. At the same time, it also presents hell to those with little or no faith. So if your followers faith starts to fade, then all you have to do is tell them they will spend eternity in torment. So now you have a nice system of "believe this or burn."

By many people believing in it, it validates it as truth or more believable. You will find that even today, people will defend their religion to the death in fear of eternity in torment. Few question what they believe in that same fear. It seems the thought of questioning is itself, lack of faith.

Once again, Faith is a neat thing. If it fails, its YOUR fault.

Now, for those of you who still have faith and are worried about questioning. I have a little treat for you. Did you know that there are many books of the bible that were not included in the canonized version that we have today? Yep! Sometimes the religious leaders of yesteryear were worried that some of the texts written were to dangerous to the religion. So they excluded them. Peter, of St. Peter fame. You know the guy. Well, even though he was "published" in the bible, someone decided that some of his writings shouldn't be included.

Peter, as well as John, wrote about the [url=http://www.earlychristianwrit...]Apocalypse[/url] . As a matter of fact, Peter's was much more popular before the canonization. This is because his text said that eventually, if those in heaven looked down to those in hell and asked God to release them, they would all be brought to heaven. But the religious leaders of the day thought this would just give people an excuse to sin more. So they scrapped it. "Sorry Peter, your end times just isn't as scary as John's end times. We are going with his."
 
THE PASSION REDUX
04.08.04 (9:57 pm)   [edit]
Those crazy greeks. Crazy crazy crazy. You may recognize this story...these goofy greeks of yore actually BELIEVED that a mortal woman, was impregnated by a god, and gave birth to a son of a god. And then this child, went on to save the people. And then hollywood, thousands of years later makes a movie about him. Actually there were a number of movies made about him. All of them portraying him in the typical way. Kind, carring, thoughtful. He talked to his godly father often. He helped all those in need, and often taught those around him. Of course, he was constantly battling against evil. And in the end, he died for love.

Of course I am talking of Hercules. What a silly thing to believe huh?

Those greeks really had some imagination!